77 more engg colleges in state from this year
started by Seva 3 mnths agoFlat
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..great !!! ...more fake certificates. More the colleges..more easy it is to get fake certificates...& a big loss for deserving candidates from reputed institutions.
"a big loss for deserving candidates from reputed institutions."
===> How is that a big loss?
For most of the jobs in IT , it is enough if you have a high school certificate and a couple of months of training in software. The rest you can learn on the job. Actually a college degree is superflous.
There is a lady I know who is a DBA. She has a Ph.D in biophysics from an Indian university.
She competes against guys with B.Sc and some DBA training.
I would rather hire the B.Sc guy than the Ph.D for the DBA job.
===> How is that a big loss?
For most of the jobs in IT , it is enough if you have a high school certificate and a couple of months of training in software. The rest you can learn on the job. Actually a college degree is superflous.
There is a lady I know who is a DBA. She has a Ph.D in biophysics from an Indian university.
She competes against guys with B.Sc and some DBA training.
I would rather hire the B.Sc guy than the Ph.D for the DBA job.
For most of the jobs in IT , it is enough if you have a high school certificate and a couple of months of training in software. The rest you can learn on the job. Actually a college degree is superflous.
IITs, IIM wouldnt have been revered if we went by your logic. There is a difference between quality & quantity...
You must be a bad manager if you would hire a Bsc guy instead of a Ph.D person with similar DBA experience. Thats the biggest problem these days... there are some lousy managers/executives out there who dont know how to give importance to experience, education over lesser education, less experienced personnel.
Here are some of the important criteria in hiring:
1. The person has the "requisite " paper qualification....
2. Can this person get along with others?
3. Will this person be a threat to ME ?
A PhD..inherently raises suspicions on #2 and #3 and hence will be disfavored. In fact, anyone who is more educated outside the "range" will be disfavored.
There are always a few exceptions - the confident type of people who are extremely secure and well connected already, who may not be very afraid of a PhD or anyone.
1. The person has the "requisite " paper qualification....
2. Can this person get along with others?
3. Will this person be a threat to ME ?
A PhD..inherently raises suspicions on #2 and #3 and hence will be disfavored. In fact, anyone who is more educated outside the "range" will be disfavored.
There are always a few exceptions - the confident type of people who are extremely secure and well connected already, who may not be very afraid of a PhD or anyone.
The guy with a B.A or B.Sc is more likely to have a better attitude and focus.
After all, IT was the field he wanted to be in. And he is going to be less distracted.
Whereas, the Ph.D person is most likely someone who could not get a faculty or a research position once her post doctoral period runs out. Or might be a person who just changed fields to make more money. She or he is going to feel bad working along with a B.A or B.Sc and will be distracted.
After all, IT was the field he wanted to be in. And he is going to be less distracted.
Whereas, the Ph.D person is most likely someone who could not get a faculty or a research position once her post doctoral period runs out. Or might be a person who just changed fields to make more money. She or he is going to feel bad working along with a B.A or B.Sc and will be distracted.
Really. Can you explain why it is abig loss to students from reputed institutions?
It is easier to get fake certificates from junk colleges. Reputed colleges have better tracking mechanism...& students records can be easily checked. There have thousands of cases of folks specially in IT industry caught with fake certifcates...(AP state has the most cases) . Top IT companies in India are hiring background check companies in India to trace down such fake engineers & IT personnel.
AP also produces most IT graduates and many of them are extremely successful.
There are many fly by night stock manipulators on stock market. Does that mean stock market is the problem? When ever there is boom in demand, manipulators follow. If one is afriad of these things, one cannot move forward.
There are many fly by night stock manipulators on stock market. Does that mean stock market is the problem? When ever there is boom in demand, manipulators follow. If one is afriad of these things, one cannot move forward.
Re; non-engineering subjects.
The need for exposure to humanities has been recognized even by IITs (as you know, IIT-Kha, had electives in humanities for a long time). Looking at the juvenile behavior of some engineering students (and engineers), I think this was a good move. We have seen here on the CH how humanistic affiliation is better than raw argumentative juvenile "brilliance". Now, let us await a response from a leader from the latter group. :-)
Speaking of engineering, do engineering graduates from well-known universities the US (children of NRIs) get jobs in India? What areas are popular these days? I heard that the interest in IT is waning and civil, mechanical, etc., are becoming popular again. How about new areas like biotechnology, bioengineering, environmental engineering, etc.?
The need for exposure to humanities has been recognized even by IITs (as you know, IIT-Kha, had electives in humanities for a long time). Looking at the juvenile behavior of some engineering students (and engineers), I think this was a good move. We have seen here on the CH how humanistic affiliation is better than raw argumentative juvenile "brilliance". Now, let us await a response from a leader from the latter group. :-)
Speaking of engineering, do engineering graduates from well-known universities the US (children of NRIs) get jobs in India? What areas are popular these days? I heard that the interest in IT is waning and civil, mechanical, etc., are becoming popular again. How about new areas like biotechnology, bioengineering, environmental engineering, etc.?
Seva - How many of these colleges are 'partly' financed by Politicians using their black moolah?
Tej,
Even if all the money was financed by politicians or their money bags, what is wrong with that from an investment point of view? Is it not better that this money is getting invested in education and is likely to provide an economic activity beneficial to the society? Secondly, who ever is investing in these colleges is taking a risk with their money. Remember the are opening 77 new colleges over 100s already existing. It is good old capitalism. Let Hundred flowers bloom.
Now if you have problem with political corruption and license raj, that is another question. Incase of engineering colleges, looks like every one who has the means seems to have gotten permission.
Even if all the money was financed by politicians or their money bags, what is wrong with that from an investment point of view? Is it not better that this money is getting invested in education and is likely to provide an economic activity beneficial to the society? Secondly, who ever is investing in these colleges is taking a risk with their money. Remember the are opening 77 new colleges over 100s already existing. It is good old capitalism. Let Hundred flowers bloom.
Now if you have problem with political corruption and license raj, that is another question. Incase of engineering colleges, looks like every one who has the means seems to have gotten permission.
While I am all for these colleges.... Most of these colleges hardly have any infrastructure - let alone decent permant faculty.
This is like building houses but without any sewage, roads, water, electricty or shops and hospitals nearby. Of course, those things come later on - but in colleges the infrastructure has to be planned simultaneously.
This is like building houses but without any sewage, roads, water, electricty or shops and hospitals nearby. Of course, those things come later on - but in colleges the infrastructure has to be planned simultaneously.
People with higher ranks have choice, They go to better established colleges. People on the lower scales have to make compromises and they always have the option of not going to these colleges. It is not as if the state has only 10 colleges and engineering is a privilaged thing. Engineering is a commodity and you have a choice of buying a idfferent product or not joining.
Every one of the colleges that was started about 15 years ago in AP is now well established. Out of those few that did not make the grade either changed focus from engineering to other majors or bought out by others or have taken some other action to become viable.
Every one of the colleges that was started about 15 years ago in AP is now well established. Out of those few that did not make the grade either changed focus from engineering to other majors or bought out by others or have taken some other action to become viable.
>>> educational institutions are not businesses. there are so many problems with a proposition that puts a profit motive first and foremost. there are certainly some parallels with business, but there is a reason why nearly all US institutions of higher education always register themselves as not for profit organizations.
Max,
I am not sure but many of the educational institutions in India also declare themselves as non profit.
They are not like ITT educational services which are I think for profit.
That paper distinction never stopped Indian college owners from making the colleges profit centers.
heck, Loyola College used to demand donations to its charities for the benefit of getting a seat. I remember every major christian convent in HYD demanding enormous sums of donations for school admissions. They are all charitable institutions.
I would rahter have a pure for profit institution if possible because the motives are straight and market has choice.
I am not sure but many of the educational institutions in India also declare themselves as non profit.
They are not like ITT educational services which are I think for profit.
That paper distinction never stopped Indian college owners from making the colleges profit centers.
heck, Loyola College used to demand donations to its charities for the benefit of getting a seat. I remember every major christian convent in HYD demanding enormous sums of donations for school admissions. They are all charitable institutions.
I would rahter have a pure for profit institution if possible because the motives are straight and market has choice.
That paper distinction never stopped Indian college owners from making the colleges profit centers.
________
The same applies to US Institutions as well...they may not call it "profit"...and call it some kind of fund "Endowment Fund", "Trustees Fund"..."Research Fund"...etc, etc...and of course the "Mega fund' "Athletics Fund"...(purely based on all kinds of profit from sports events)...
*As you say on paper it all looks 'so distinct/ethical"...but, beneath the surface, almost everything is about money-making..expanding financial gains.
Nothing wrong with it...as you say..why not be openly "profit-making?"
M
________
The same applies to US Institutions as well...they may not call it "profit"...and call it some kind of fund "Endowment Fund", "Trustees Fund"..."Research Fund"...etc, etc...and of course the "Mega fund' "Athletics Fund"...(purely based on all kinds of profit from sports events)...
*As you say on paper it all looks 'so distinct/ethical"...but, beneath the surface, almost everything is about money-making..expanding financial gains.
Nothing wrong with it...as you say..why not be openly "profit-making?"
M
>> Nothing wrong with it...as you say..why not be openly "profit-making?"
Agree... everyone in a college should be profit motivated just like its trustees and owners..
A for Rs, 20,000; B for Rs 15,000; C for Rs 5000, D for Rs 3000. F for free...
(The pricing is subject to change without notice)
Agree... everyone in a college should be profit motivated just like its trustees and owners..
A for Rs, 20,000; B for Rs 15,000; C for Rs 5000, D for Rs 3000. F for free...
(The pricing is subject to change without notice)
This example is easy to refute. If any college did try this, they could do this for a very limited time, and it would do irreparable damage to its reputation. So it is in the economic interest of most educational institutions to NOT do something like this.
I'm not so confident in the Indian market's ability to correct itself.
Given the huge discrepancy between supply and demand, right now, anyone with an engineering degree gets a job and those in the business of creating engineers are minting money, bad reputation and all.
merlot - Given the huge discrepancy between supply and demand, right now, anyone with an engineering degree gets a job
Not Accurate. 4 years back when the supply of engineers was lesser than today, there was already a 20% unemployment among engineers in India.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/17akd.htm
Not everyone gets into a lucrative IT job. A lot of engineers will struggle even to pay off the loans either they incur or their parents, particularly the ones from newer, rural engineering colleges.
Not Accurate. 4 years back when the supply of engineers was lesser than today, there was already a 20% unemployment among engineers in India.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/17akd.htm
Not everyone gets into a lucrative IT job. A lot of engineers will struggle even to pay off the loans either they incur or their parents, particularly the ones from newer, rural engineering colleges.
Have to catch a plane in an hour, so quick response. Supply and demand balance is getting corrected as we speak. Those 77 new colleges do just that.
Of course there are externalities in educaiton, and there is strong need for regulation to ensure standards. But at the end of the day, if lots of Indians want to be engineers (rather, lots of Indian parents want their kids to be engineers), we need lots of engineering colleges and the market is the way we will get there.
Of course there are externalities in educaiton, and there is strong need for regulation to ensure standards. But at the end of the day, if lots of Indians want to be engineers (rather, lots of Indian parents want their kids to be engineers), we need lots of engineering colleges and the market is the way we will get there.
"I'm not so confident in the Indian market's ability to correct itself. "
How did India move to economic reforms. When the kitchen gets hot, those who cannot stand the heat will run.
Whether Indian system is efficient or not, private choatic resolution was always a better solution (even in india) than govt controlled license raj. Check the history of Public sector and chaotic growth of IT industry. Which proved to be the right path?
>>> TBT -- you have all the zeal of someone newly converted to a religion when you talk of free markets and capitalism. did you just discover all this? i repeat -- a university is not a business for many reasons if it wants to remain credible, and free market principles only apply up to a point.
Max, (and also Merlot )
Unlike lefties and confused academics, I have always been an objective market force supporters (despite its limitations).
You are tyring to solve a problem that does not exist. You are talking about the authenticity of a research university that is not yet born and none of these universities have aspirations to be that university.
These institutions are merely set up to support a demand in the people for engineering degrees. the competetion between them is furious because the best gets the best students, higher donations. So they are forced to build their institution by puting more money back into the institution and hiring the best talent. I am quite familiar with how successful private colleges in AP have developed. I had discussions with trustees, and leaders of those institutions. I have asked questions that are being asked here.
In the past two decades, some of the private institutions have improved so much that they enjoy the same level of status as state run institutions. The thing that is holding them back is that brightest go to state sponsored schools because they do not charge fees.
Now is the 300th engineering college good enough to be called an engineering college. Not today, probably not tomorrow. But that is a risk the owners of the college and students who go that college take. What is wrong in allowing them to take that risk? Who are we to say that they cannot have chance?
All these college , on paper, have to meet certain state and national standards. If the govt is serious, it can do a good job of accreditation. IN AP on occassion, some colleges get flagged for poor infrastructure and poor quality. However, I will not put much faith in that system. These colleges were forced to act when students stopped coming to them. market place did its work. It is slow and cumbersome. Some innocent customers will be hurt. So what is new?
If india can implement a new system where every new institution is like Birla institute of technology, more power to them. But I do not see that in the horizon.
Unlike lefties and confused academics, I have always been an objective market force supporters (despite its limitations).
You are tyring to solve a problem that does not exist. You are talking about the authenticity of a research university that is not yet born and none of these universities have aspirations to be that university.
These institutions are merely set up to support a demand in the people for engineering degrees. the competetion between them is furious because the best gets the best students, higher donations. So they are forced to build their institution by puting more money back into the institution and hiring the best talent. I am quite familiar with how successful private colleges in AP have developed. I had discussions with trustees, and leaders of those institutions. I have asked questions that are being asked here.
In the past two decades, some of the private institutions have improved so much that they enjoy the same level of status as state run institutions. The thing that is holding them back is that brightest go to state sponsored schools because they do not charge fees.
Now is the 300th engineering college good enough to be called an engineering college. Not today, probably not tomorrow. But that is a risk the owners of the college and students who go that college take. What is wrong in allowing them to take that risk? Who are we to say that they cannot have chance?
All these college , on paper, have to meet certain state and national standards. If the govt is serious, it can do a good job of accreditation. IN AP on occassion, some colleges get flagged for poor infrastructure and poor quality. However, I will not put much faith in that system. These colleges were forced to act when students stopped coming to them. market place did its work. It is slow and cumbersome. Some innocent customers will be hurt. So what is new?
If india can implement a new system where every new institution is like Birla institute of technology, more power to them. But I do not see that in the horizon.
I give myself a pat on the back for having the patience to wade through your 500-word essay. Sadly, there was nothing new to learn at the end of all that hard work. Not one word about why, in a seller's market where anyone with a piece of paper that says B.Engg gets a job offer (or two), students will stop going to poor quality colleges.
*Note to self: Go watch the movie on Netflix instead*
*Note to self: Go watch the movie on Netflix instead*
Tej - I don't know how many of these engg. colleges are a business venture for politicians and their friends, but it's not good for society if all or most of the emphasis is placed by the Govt. on only one type of education and colleges. In a country likeIndia
SB - when I joined IIT in 1965, the doctor / med. staff at the time of interview not only recorded candidates' height, weight and blood pressure etc. but also asked them to strip completely so that their private parts could be examined. In addition, there was a test for color blindness. I don't know if this type of medical exam. was conducted at all the IIT centers or just at IIT Delhi.
- Seva
- Too many folks already graduated/graduating from those
- Too few high paying jobs available in both.
How many cities in India would pay $50 million for a 'public art' fountain project like NYC?
The problem is that majority of people who studied arts / humanities inIndia India