Hindi as a National Language

started by PseudoIntellectual 2 mnths ago
I think it is stupid call Hindi India's national language. My arguement is that Hindi is as regional as any other language. IN a country where more than 20 major langauges are spoken, it stupid to make people learn one language. I can understand & speak hindi. What about u?

I want honest opinions not NI SI fights.

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  Ponniyin Selvan posted Re:Hindi as a National Language (Data from 1991 census) on 2 mnths ago


Multilingualism of Major Indian Language Speakers in Hindi
         Language             Multilingualism  Bilingualism    Trilingualism
1.       Kashmiri                      52.52                42.16                10.36
2.       Sindhi                          50.61                40.74                09.91
3.       Punjabi                        36.25                30.75                05.50
4.       Nepali                          35.46                23.25                12.21
5.       Marathi                                     25.79               23.79                02.00
6.       Konkani                       24.75                08.58                16.47
7.       Manipuri                      24.31                10.02                14.29
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  •   manhere posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    National language has been thought of by some self serving mfkng politician who didnt have anything else to hang her/his head on to be in the limelight. What national language? I speak six different languages and I have no problems. If I didn't know any, I wouldnt have any problem either. Fk national language. Just speak whatever you know of - better yet, communicate in sign language, make gestures or inuendos or even make faces. More fun there than one fkd up national language.

      -sandilya. posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago

    National languages evolve!  If Hindi (or Tamil, Telugu, Swahili.......) speaking people are the major contributors to the economy, science, industry, literature, arts, etc., they don’t need to shout for it to become the national language.

    Here is the new national (actually, international) language!  It is symbolic of how active the code-coolie community is in society!  

     

    LOL

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    Here is another new approach to language:

    http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZNxdm117&ref=http%3A//www.iconarchive.com/

     

     


      deep purple posted PI = Kayal? on 2 mnths ago

    what traffic generation. dhanya ho manju.

      carvaka posted Re:PI = Kayal? on 2 mnths ago
    No one is above bias. Go back to CH history today. See who started the first threads about Hindi being rashtra bhasha. Hint: there were two of them. When the first failed, the second started with "again."
      deep purple posted Re:PI = Kayal? on 2 mnths ago
    Hint: ppl often bait subtly.
      carvaka posted Re:PI = Kayal? on 2 mnths ago
    The relevant links are here. You know as well as anyone else here that QB did the baiting. Those baits would have gone unanswered too, if not for Pranay's earnest response :).




      gyanputra posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    That was probably an issue 30-40 years ago. Right now people learn language or languages which generate jobs. i have not seen younger folks quarrel about what language to learn, most are quite pragmatic and would learn language of the client .

    English did not give people any choice in learning a third class language, they simply destroyed Sanskrit  school systems and gave jobs or funds to only those who were willing to learn and speak English.

      BladeRunner posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    too late! you have already started a NI vs SI fight. Only indians are stupid enough to argue about language. This is one of the many stupid things that keeps india the third world country it is. It will take 10000 years for indians to become mentally mature and realize what their priorities are.
    While we are at it, why not also discuss what caste should be the national caste? 
      peacegazer posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Srsly, this is the best post of the day! :)

      carvaka posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    > While we are at it, why not also discuss what caste should be the national caste?

    Excellent idea. We should have one national caste for better national integration. That way when the PM goes to AP, he can be sure he is eating food cooked by his fellow-casters.


      rawemotions posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    I think the issue is the yardstick  being used to declare something as a national language.
    Does the Indian constitution specify a set of guidelines for declaring a languageg as a national language ?
    We should adopt something as a national language if it is economically beneficial and leads to growth.

    The biggest argument against declaring Hindi is that it effectively makes the labour market one sided and thus is not conducive to all round growth.

    People who know Hindi can go to other states, secure that the language will eventually be present in all government buildings.
    Whereas the same cannot be said the other way.

      peacegazer posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    How many times was this topic discussed before on CH?
      deep purple posted Hindi is a 5 letter word on 2 mnths ago
    so is Tamil. and so is Telugu!

    But kannada has 7 letters like Marathi.

    Gujarati has 8.

    random thoughts.


      JBF posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    majority wins

      Uppili posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Akbar spoke Hindi. The great Mogul was a secular and also a linguistically secular. Well known Western and Canadian historians have repeatedly said that India will prospoer only if all Indians followed the path shown by that great patriotic mogul Emperor Akbar.
      deep purple posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    his wife, jodha jodhi jodhe, bibi bai mata, wore lehenga choli and fed Akbar daal and taught that illiterate some Hindi.


      Truthbetold3 posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Every one should be taught in their mother tongue.  Since most technical knowledge in today's world is in English, liguistic states should have the right to choose english as the medium of instruction at higher education.  Since english is the languge of higher learning , it should be taught from early childhood. 

    If Hindi supporters could translate the voluminous knoweldge into Hindi, those areas with predominant Hindi or lcosely related language could choose Hindi as medium of instruction.

    That is how the system evolved in India.  However,  we have too many english medium schools at elementary level. 

    In terms of national communication,  english and Hindi both should be used. Hindi, because it is understood by the largest number of people in India. (UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana, - medium of instruction,  also well understood in Orissa, Bengal, Punjab, Gujarat, Maharastra, kashmir).   English to allow communication with SI. 

    India does just that. Why fuss about Hindi?  How does that discomfort any one?  

    English will never become a common man's language in India. Where is Hindi is understood by the large majority of India. 

    English helps us but it will never bring out the genius of India. It will remain elitist and exclusive. 

    If you want proof, look to India of the past 60 years.

      PseudoIntellectual posted Re:Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    I am not for having a National language at all. Hindi is well understood in far fewer states than you mentioned. Most illterates dont know Hindi in most of the States.
      Truthbetold3 posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Psuedo, 

    That is a sweeping statement.  Give me the facts.  (UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana) . Just look at these states, how much of India is that?  Can any other language even come close to that? 

    Just the facts.

      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    > Just look at these states, how much of India is that?

    Less than a majority. See
    here. Counting all states with a Hindi-speaking majority (Delhi is doubtful but still being counted)...

    UP: 166 million
    Bihar: 83
    MP: 60
    Rajasthan: 57
    Jharkhand: 27
    Haryana: 21
    Chhattisgarh: 21
    Delhi: 14
    Uttarakhand: 8
    Himachal Pradesh: 6
    That makes for a grand total of: 403 million.
      Truthbetold3 posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago

    carvaka,

    I am used to this number games.  Which other language even comes close to 403 million?  How many people in india can communicate in english? 

    Now If I can add muslim population to that and add states like Gujarat, Maharastra, orissa, and Bengal ( we can ignore kshmir and Punjab for few minutes), how iwll this number game shape up?

    Economic might of English is the only reason for its eminent place in India. But it is also creating a two tier nation with most opportunities going to english speaking people. 

    The genius of  a nation comes out only when its people are educated  and participate in the social activities.  India will never acheive that by english medium.

    I do not want Hindi imposed on people but intellegensia should rally around Hindi as the communication tool and develop that as an economic tool so that wider participation of the common man is possible. 

    National language, imposition of Hindi,  and preference to Hidni is political nonsense.  But future growth of India depends on developing a common tool for communication. That tool is not english.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

      PseudoIntellectual posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago

      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    I will wait for PS to post the numbers. It will show you that the skew is not that big. If a villager in AP has to learn a new language, it is more useful for him to learn English than Hindi. The notion of Hindi as a communication tool that you propose is flawed. The market bears this out amply. Remove the government subsidies for Hindi, and few SIs in villages and small towns will bother to learn Hindi. English OTOH, almost anyone who can afford to learn it will do so.


      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    As PI and others have mentioned, this is a very generous estimate of the number of native Hindi speakers. That is because the people of Jharkhand / Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan and Haryana would struggle to communicate effectively with each other if they all spoke only their native tongues. They ARE different.
      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Here is what Wikipedia says: Native speakers of Hindi dialects between them account for 41% of the Indian population (2001 Indian census). That is, all Hindi dialects together account for only 41% of the Indian population.
      Truthbetold3 posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Carvaka,

    Minor variations of language are common through the world.  India was under foriegn occupation for the last 100 years while most culture developed languages, communication menas etc.  So it did not have that advantage. Now democratic india through its cultural and economic interaction is trying establish a means of communication.

    The question is what is the best tool.  I am suggesting Hindi is strong contender in the market of options.  technicalities like whether it is the bHojpuri or haryani sopken a house is less important than a choice between english or hindi to those people. My guess would whether it is 41% or 75%,  90 to 95 of those people would prefer Hindi to english in communication. 

    If you are a marketer, would you not want to start from such a strong base?



      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Hindi is a rather weak contender in the market of options, when it goes up against English. How many people in rural AP do you know who pay for their children to learn Hindi? And how many do you know who pay for their children to learn English? Don't you think the market is telling you something there? Why do you think there are so many English medium schools in AP, and so few Hindi medium schools, even though Hindi as a language is closer to the local languages Telugu and Urdu? Don't you think the market is again telling you something there? The market has already spoken. Remove the government money for Hindi promotion, and fewer people still in AP will choose to learn Hindi!
      Truthbetold3 posted Re:(Carvaka - english medium schools) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    At this point in time, they is a strong sentiment among people that english medium education is necessary for real career.  If english fulfils that role, I have no problem. 

    If people benefit from learning english,  all the more power to them.

    Sadly, it will not be able to cross the single digit percentage of the total population. 

    The english medium craze is like engg colleges in AP.   There are enough smart people out there who see an opportunity to make money on people's current craze to start english medium schools. They do not extend literacy, they take the share from regualr literacy percentages. In fact these kids would have been literates anyway. 

    Let us see how far will this market forces take english over a longer period of time.





      MaxEntropy_Man posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    "I am suggesting Hindi is strong contender in the market of options. "

    >>> why? and i'll echo FF here because he has made the very same point forcefully in the past - which economics, condensed matter physics, cancer research, or materials science, or business journal of global repute is published in hindi?
      Truthbetold3 posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago

    Carvaka,

    I answered that question in an earlier response to Max. 

    let me try differently.

    I did not propose Hindi to replace English as the medium of instruction. 

    When I try to sell my grocery or one ruppe shampoo or nirma washing liquid or snake oil,  I am tagrgetiing masses. I will use hinglish or hindi to capture large section of audience. 

    You and FF can continue to write your articles in English and I will hire subramanium shrikant to read and make my next product.  Why should vast majority of Indians learn english and gain very little from that effort. They could easily  learn and write their own language and transact business in that language.

     

      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    > Why should vast majority of Indians learn english and gain very little from that effort.
    > They could easily  learn and write their own language and transact business in that language.

    Exactly. For a minority of Indians, "their own language" happens to be Hindi. If the rest have to learn just one other language, they would gain a lot more from learning English, than from learning Hindi.
      deep purple posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    well i was forced to learn bengali while in Kolkata. I aint kidding.
      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    You chose to go live in Kolkata -- they wouldn't have thrown you in prison or expelled you if you refused to learn the language. There was some socioeconomic benefit to learning Bangla, so learnt it. Now consider why a high school student in Nalgonda, who will likely never go live in Bulandshahr should be made to learn Hindi using government funds.
      peacegazer posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    He can understand movies. :P
      JayZ posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    You don't really need to learn  hindi to watch bipasha in a bikini,  aish dancing on the streets of brussels, or any of those mawkish joint family dramas - do you now?

      deep purple posted start 1-900 service in Hindi on 2 mnths ago

    like i said Bollywood is the single most reason for Hindi spread. forget India, even in ABDs.


      carvaka posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago
    Yeah... PG, see my other response below about Hindi movies in small cities, towns and villages.



      deep purple posted Re:(psuedo) Hindi as a National Language on 2 mnths ago

    does it make me eligible to whine abt why i was forced to learn Sanskrit in NI?