Will you forgive past trespasses ?
started by jaijui 11 mnths agoReplies
Every person on earth is born with certain burdens of past life... if parents have ruined your childhood... this were the karmas you have brought from past lives.. might be the same you would have done to them in one of your past life.. but don't stay away from duties of taking care of them.... because in them lives your GOD... the same whom you worship...
I know its hard to forgive, but always remember, Their parents would hav done the same abusive thisngs to them, so at the time, it was all they knew, to handle the situation, In those days we could not back-answer our parents or even question them qout the abuse, because it was Taboo, But taht was all they know, Nowadays, we speak out, we listen to peoples problems on TV, etc, they were not able to do that. So ignorance, played a big part in our upbringing. We are able to get emotional help from our peers, relations, friends in office etc, they were not able to do that in their days, So it is not their fault. Blame it on ignorance. Now they will realise which side thier bread is buttered, when we set and show a good example, tell them "I FORGIVE YOU FOR WHAT U HAVE DONE TO ME" BUT never forget, coz it has to be there, to remind us not to do the same to our kids.
tanjerine
I wanted to avoid this but couldn't because of the kind of responses you have got . Let me tell you the answer to your straight and simple question is not very SIMPLE. Forget about INDIAN CULTURE--It is an argument of CONVENIENCE. One got to know the "DEGREE OF NASTINESS" of the parent.
How do you expect a daughter to pardon her father ever who had been raping her for three years with the connivance of her mother?
How do you visualise a girl pardoning her mother who pushed her into PROSTITUTION and a damn father who had been pimping for her?
These questions are not hypothetical but real time news head lines over the last few months.I am afraid we can not be PRISONERS of our SO CALLED CULTURE. Not that these things are happening now, it has been so down the ages--that's why words like "INCEST" exist in our vocabulary. Brothers have been raping their sisters. Sons have been sleeping with their mothers. How do you for get CLEOPATRA and NERO? Even in indian context WIDOWED ladies have been sexually exploited by FIL or BIL. this has been happening in the past--only thing there was no exposure. why harp about a culture and ethos which has its hands dirtied.
Having said this, I am all for looking after old and aged parents b'coz my parents have been nice to me.at times they were nasty but the degree of nastiness has been within tolerable limits(WTL). But what do you say of parents who had disinherited their DAUGHTER or the SON. This act of parents might not be within WTL. Dear,obligation is not MANDATORY--it is resposive to the acts of your parents. we are all human beings.
i know people of my age group--around SIXTIES--will support that PARENTS MUST BE FORGIVEN--because we are stepping into this state but why have we forgotten about our acts of INVESTMENTS. If we had INVESTED in our CHILDREN PARENTAL LOVE AND AFFECTION , surely, in our old age we will get the dividend. But if we had been abusive we will get abuses in return.
MY DEAR, ULTIMATELY IT IS YOUR INVESTMENT ON AND IN YOUR CHILDREN WHICH WILL SAIL YOU THROUGH YOUR OLD AGE. DO NOT EXPECT MERCY IF YOU HAD NOT BEEN EXTENDING IT. REMEMBER THIS. NICETIES TO CHILDREN in TEENS and BEYOND only get you positive return. FINALLY, if you have been a good parent--WHY SHOULD YOU EXPECT ANYTHING IN RETURN? Live your own life as you have--leave your children to live their lives. IT IS A BONUS IF THEY CARE FOR YOU. Regards. Rajee.
Since this thread has discussed issues apart from the original intent, I thought I would put my thoughts/experiences too.
I used to visit one old age home (pvt) where terminally ill and aged persons live. Some of them were so terminally ill, you may not see them on your next visit (after 30 days). Those are like children, they just wanted someone to hear them, talk to them or spend few minutes. I visited them as part of a religious group (though I donot like this group/philosophy/founder:) I just went there to help). We used to help them to play bingo, give them fruits, talk to them. I met all kinds of ppl there. Some 93 year old healthy woman who was just so happy to talk to everyone and she was giving moral support to others. I also saw one devoted (white) husband who comes everyday morning and stays till the evening taking care of his mentally challenged wife (he lives nearby with his daughter).
I have also visited one home for the aged (govt aided), where I have seen quite a few desi couples in their last years of life. Their sons/daughters are well off but some of them chose to stay here to avoid disturbing their sons/daughters or to avoid disturbances from their sons/daughters:)
But one strong/dynamic lady from Delhi chose to live on her own here, though his son/dil/grandkids live nearby. She couldnot get along with her DIL. But Dil/Son donot mind using this lady to babysit their kids on weekends. She is happy to live alone.
Some say, parents become like kids when they are old. I guess it is true. They just need attention and little compassion. And it is difficult for them to change their habits so it is better to let them be who they are:) I guess if the parent is healthy and wants independence it is better to let them be on their own.
FH:)
My wife and I visit an old age home. It is an enriching experience. Some of those folks are much more interesting than some young ones I see at work. After my mom passed away, my daughter decided to help at the old age home. She is teaching them how to use the computer and helped them in creating a monthly newsletter. They love her.
I totally agree with this. That has been my view for a long time. As the human age they become defacto children insecure, scared, needing support and dependence on sons/daughters. When they are sick they cannot take care of themselves, they cannot be actrive like adults, they talk about the same things (like kids play the same thing), forget a lot, mood changes from sorry and anger to cheer and happiness in a second.
If sons and daughters think for a second they also will be in that situation one day and they were also helpless when they were kids, they might be more understanding in PUTTING up with the nastiness of the parents.
On that note, I wish I have a daughter like Maria in my next life (Dont know how my current one turns out to be! :)
Thanks for sharing your experiences Muralidhaari.
How is little S?
On that note, I wish I have a daughter like Maria in my next life (Dont know how my current one turns out to be! :)
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Shunnya,
Do you even know...what you are wishing for?!! If you only knew what you are asking for...there would never be a dull moment..ever:)
*If you still are brave and want to take a chance, I can still be adopted in this life:-)
Seriously...Oh, how kind is that! And it is one of the nicest things anyone has said to me in the virtual world:-) Thanks.
I am sure you have a wonderful Daughter and you seem like a very good Dad!
*Cherish every moment..it will all be okay...you will always be the MOST special man- she looks up to!
My father passed away- ten years ago...I was not the perfect daughter/he was not the perfect Dad and we had our battles, but we were always very close. His voice...and simple words "Don't worry, it is not the end of the world", no matter how HUGE the crisis/problem was...gave me such strength..I miss him a lot.
As others have said- I visit/work with older people...whenever I can...I thoroughly enjoy their company and learned so much from them..just the other day- I was talking to an older lady, who is cheerful all the time..I asked her..how he remains calm and happy, she said "The sooner you realize, everything is not about you...it never was or will be, you are at peace"...think I am trying to get to that place, sooner than later:)
Thanks again,
Maria
Anyway, I was just wondering what role(if any) does your religion play in your life, as far as being able to forgive others?
I have noticed that after you quarrell with someone here, you don't seem to hold grudge against them even after they insult you. That's a positive attribute. Seems like you had good upbringing. I know we disagree on several issues. But I haven't sensed any hostility/contempt from you--not that matters in the virtual world.
Maria, once I was watching a Larry King show(during Clinton-Monica Lewinsky episode) in which Larry said this to Pat Robertson: "isn't your religion based on forgiveness? So, do you forgive Bill Clinton?
Anyway, I was just wondering what role(if any) does your religion play in your life, as far as being able to forgive others?
I have noticed that after you quarrell with someone here, you don't seem to hold grudge against them even after they insult you. That's a positive attribute. Seems like you had good upbringing. I know we disagree on several issues. But I haven't sensed any hostility/contempt from you--not that matters in the virtual world.
_________
Amerasian,
Of course, faith and forgiveness and interconnected in my life...I am not sure how anyone can call themselves
a "Christian"- without forgiveness. And of course- forgiveness does not mean being forgetting and being foolish about making the same mistakes of trusting someone over and over again.
*I suppose there is a difference betweeen forgiving a loved one (someone who is always going to be part of our lives and accepting them for who they are), and forgiving strangers ..with strangers it is easier to avoid/minimize contact in the future.
*And Yes- there were/are wonderful people who influenced/influence me..and anything positive can be attributed to them..
LOL! You call spats here- "quarreling" here?! Don't you think...it is very one sided and it is no contest, I win hands down or up(!) Ok, the truth and no kidding- and it is no secret...I like you ALL! even the sprouting/have nothing to sprout, stinging and biting ones:) I cannot afford to hold grudges against anyone (here or anywhere)...I may stay away from some if there is a pattern of only negativity...because negative energy- does not help me/it is exhausting..and a lot of people depend on me and have many responsibilities...can't function, if I am feeling drained- so, keep myself in shape- mentally and physically (as much as possible).
Mr. Seva, thanks.
M
Sooo true. Also, conflicts with relatives(especially siblings) tend to be more emotionally intensive. I think it has to do with our level of emotional investment in each other.
"LOL! You call spats here- "quarreling" here?! Don't you think...it is very one sided and it is no contest, I win hands down or up(!) Ok, the truth and no kidding- and it is no secret...I like you ALL! even the sprouting/have nothing to sprout, stinging and biting ones:) I cannot afford to hold grudges against anyone (here or anywhere)...I may stay away from some if there is a pattern of only negativity...because negative energy- does not help me/it is exhausting..and a lot of people depend on me and have many responsibilities...can't function, if I am feeling drained- so, keep myself in shape- mentally and physically (as much as possible)."
Yeah, spat was the word I needed but couldn't think of it at that time. To me, the 'bickering' on CH is more like verbal jabbing.
If his/her parents had posted - you would have "understood" that too - from your vast experience.
Do you never feel the urge to know the "complete" truth before feeling "compassionate" ?
Compassion without complete truth is misplaced, sometimes?"
__________________
Shunnya,
Are you sure...if I agree with everything that a poster says? I don't think so:)
And I don't have to just be rebellious for the sake of rebellious- against everything!
Just to be contradictory, for no reason is very silly, imo.
*To me, in this case, it was a simple, GENERAL question..."Would you forgive an abusive parent (trespasses) and take care of them- when they are older and helpless?" But it was also a personal question..and ...And my answer personal answer was, "I would".
*If it was parent asking me "would you forgive your children's trespasses?" I would have answered with a similar "Yes".
*Speaking for myself- I don't measure forgiveness/compassion, according to "the truth"...(in other words, I don't have to understand why I should be compassionate/if a person "deserves my forgiveness":)...it may be all lies/undeserving..but, just based on someone's suffering- I can be compassionate and forgive.
Obviously, others should do-what they want to:)
good night,
M
________
I do understand exactly- what kind of parent you are referring to.. and I mentioned that even "great parents" are not easy to take care of...for different reasons.
Anyways, sure...it takes mental preparation (to overcome the past and deal with the present)...but, it can be achieved.
*I am quite heartened to see some of the responses here...about forgiveness and willingness to help.
Maria
If his/her parents had posted - you would have "understood" that too - from your vast experience.
Do you never feel the urge to know the "complete" truth before feeling "compassionate" ?
Compassion without complete truth is misplaced, sometimes?
random wonderings.
hey Maria ,
yeah i am too happy to see the replies ..but not convinced that it is easy ..
nor that the son or daughter will allow themselves be led again willingly to the slaughter ...
if the parent has been vile ..would we not look upon him as a stranger ..nay as an enemy ..
just because he gave us birth ...should we remain obliged ? for life ?
even animals do that ...
thanks for participating , my friend :)
jaijui
Many often say - you will know once you become a parent yourself.
Not saying that it applies to your or all cases. Nasty = molestation? or Nasty = Being mean to teach you some lessons of life?
Who knows.
random corrections.
nasty parents as in ..indifferent ..ridiculing the children especially the son questioning his worth in life
verbal abuse ..physical abuse ..molestation even...
where a kid having grown up has the most unpleasant memories of the parent ..learns to detest him or her ..
the parent in this case is the perpetrator and the kid ..the victim ..no two ways about it :D
To slap a son, literally and symbolically, to make him succeed is not uncommon in Indian raising.
Are you viewing Indian raising with American glasses on?
but molestation even..... sue them and prove it.
believe me there are parents .Indian ones even who treat their children like dirt ..probably because of some frustration at their job or with spouse ...or familial depression ..
a kid growing up in this environment is bound to be unhappy and detest the parent ..his wings are clipped ..not able to reach his potential in life ...
you still want him to obey ..love his parent ?
appreciate your comments here :)
jaijui
Imagine of humans having infinite potential - all capable to achieve it - the ones who reconcile by placing the "blame" on parents, uncles and aunties need to be slapped. Till one is a kid, I can understand but once an adult, to blame others as a reason instead of introspecting to improve upon self is simply an excuse of the weak.
Glad to have stumbled upon this thread.... me too has been pondering over a very similar issue for quite a while now, the difference being that in my case, the situation is with my parents-in-law!
Agreed that we should forget and forgive and move on... but is it really that easy? or am I being a stuck-up??
Also, some pil(l)s are hard to swallow, but you must for better heath and mind.
Also, how's your sis? Did she come over?
And finally, I am very sad and disappointed. You invite others to lunch but have forgotten my dinner invitation :((
I just don't get it Bittu .... Why do in-laws think that till the time they are not burning or beating their bahu for dowry, all is ok and forgiven??
Everything else can be neglected, or worked on.
*That's what I have been told:D*
T
Wake up.... it is not a marriage if there is no power struggle, in which case you need to be ruthless.
va-gal -
there's only one way to handle plms with ILs..
go kick your hubby in the tuckus.
:-)
Gosh Bittu! how many times have I to invite you and family over for lunch?
sorry, but that's how it works with in-laws.
:) how u been ups taata?