Dates and documents: not the true essence of history

started by carvaka 1 month ago
June 15, 2008 was the 25th anniversary of the death of Sri Sri, a Telugu poet considered a mahakavi -- "great poet" -- an honorific used for Kalidasa. As an obituarist noted, Sri Sri was "for Andhra Pradesh what Nazrul Islam was for Bangladesh, Pablo Neruda for Latin America". It is apt to remember Sri Sri a few days after the actual death anniversary; as he wrote in mahAprasthAnam ("Great Journey": title likely inspired by Mao's Long March):

E yuddham enduku jarigeno
E rAjyam ennALLundO
tEdIlU dastAvEjulu
ivi kAvOy charitra sAram

What were the causes of which war?
How long did which empire last?
These dates and those documents
Aren't the true essence of history past!

Here is a tribute to Sri Sri from Swedish writer Jan Myrdal's book India Waits: Singing the Poetry of the People

Here are a few verses from Sri Sri's take on history and how it is usually told -- my bad translation doesn't convey the beauty of the original.

The history of which country in the world
Is worthy of unadulterated pride?
Mankind's entire history is replete
With persecution and genocide

...

Chenghiz Khan, Timerlane, Nadir Shah
Muhammads of Ghazna and Ghor
Sikandar -- what does it matter who?
Everyone of them a mass-murderer

...

A richshaw-wallah in China
A mineworker in the Czech country
A deckhand in Ireland
All the downtrodden peoples...

... Hottentot, Zulu, Negro
All races dispersed across continents
Will realize the true nature of history
And declare it with one voice

What were the causes of which war?
How long did this empire last?
These dates and those documents
Aren't the true essence of history past!

This queen's romantic dalliances
That seige and how much it cost
Palace intrigues, secret plots
Aren't the true essence of history past!

The dark corner of history and lore
Holds at its very bottom, invisible
Stories that need to be told now,
Truth that cannot be hidden any more.

In the civilization by the Nile
How was the common man's life?
To build the grand Taj Mahal,
Who are the coolies that lifted stones?

Amidst the blitzkreigs of empires
What courage did ordinary people show?
It's not the palanquin of the lord;
Who are the bearers carrying the load?

Takshashila, Pataliputra
The shores of the Mediterranean
Harappa, Mohenjadaro,
In the caverns of Cro-Magnon

In historic times past
What was "progress" in man's story?
Which country, in which era,
Achieved what great objective?

What sculpture? What literature?
What science? What art?
What progress towards illumination?
What dreams and what victories?

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Replies


  Impedimenta posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
OK! then. how is u? don't mind me. i may be intellectually challenged at the moment...
  carvaka posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
Me good. Canada Day and Independence Day have given me some free time at work, which may be coming to an end soon... What's up with you? Did you already take the LSAT, or are you working on it?
  Impedimenta posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
me in chennai having FUN, basically bringing the roof down. he. LSATs when i get back. now, it is time to party. take care. good to see u here.
  carvaka posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
You partying and having fun while we poor sods have to slave away? Fine, be that way.

Good to see you too -- enjoy your vacation!

  Uppili posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
You do roofing too ?  are you licensed ?

now what is the difference between "fun" and "FUN" ???...
  Impedimenta posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
fun is when i am in the us. FUN is for my husband [who i miss terribly] when i am out of nj. he is not picking up any phone. damn!  men!
  Uppili posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
Well......now you may have a point...;) Looks like he is living a "happy" marrried life...  I had my own " vacation time" last month....  so I can understand him...

Besides  dont waste the madras heat and sun... and please enjoy there and dont bring them here.






  Truthbetold3 posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago

Sri Sri was absolutely the best ever. 

I was reading about his early poetry. He wrote his major works before he came to contact with political philosophies.  

he was among the few who left an indelible mark on telugu people.

Simple words that have the power of nuclear blast(I am not exaggerating).

 

  carvaka posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
He had the ability to ask profound questions in simple everyday words: tAj mahal nirmANAniki rALLettina kUlIlevaru? In that ability, he is nabhooto-nabhavishyati. Actually I hope the future will bring many more poets like him, but I doubt if it will.
  Rashmun posted Re:[Carvaka/TBT]Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
how do u compare Sri Sri with Vemana? I have actually read a bit of Vemana and i liked the sharp, stinging element in his verses particularly when he indulges in attacking idiotic behavior (like those sadhus who think they can attain moksha by subjecting their body to extreme pain and discomfort.) and also the iconoclasm like when he protests against the notion of untouchability (and even, i think, the caste system).
  carvaka posted Re:[Carvaka/TBT]Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
Vemana wrote in the common man's language of his time, and Sri Sri did the same. Both were unsparing in their criticism of what they saw as wrong. Vemana wrote strictly within the constraints of aataveladi meter (chhandassu), while Sri Sri wrote free verse and made up his own forms as he went along. In that way, he freed Telugu poetry from a long-established tradition of metric composition. (Other poets also wrote free verse in Sri Sri's time, but he was the loudest and most eloquent voice in that group.)

The big contrast between them is perhaps outside their poetry. Sri Sri was not an ascetic poet; he was an active Communist who acted on his beliefs. All said, I guess Sri Sri was the modern Vemana.
  Rashmun posted Re:[Carvaka/TBT]Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
thanks for the explaination.
  carvaka posted Re:[Carvaka/TBT]Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
I should have added: given Sri Sri's time, he had the advantage of exposure to ideas from far-away places like Europe, which Vemana did not have access to. Marxist writings and Mao's actions had a profound impact on Sri Sri. Sri Sri also wrote many songs for Telugu movies, which broadened his reach. Vemana's influence on Telugu minds is broad and deep; Sri Sri's influence is less profound, but his movie songs gave him a broader audience than his Communist-minded poetry alone would have done.




  Truthbetold3 posted Re:Dates and documents: not the true essence of history on 1 month ago
Future will always bring something new but just like there will never be another kanya sulkam, there will never be another Sri Sri.  




  carvaka posted tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
For people who like Sri Sri...
  Propagandhi122 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
he was good poet but such a communist. I wonder if he would have had the honestly to see communism for what it was.
  carvaka posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
I don't think he would have given up communism. I have friends from my generation who are communists now. Communism, like religion in the words of its first ideologue, is like opium to its believers.

I like Sri Sri for his direct and brutal assessment of the world he saw. Like I try to put aside the religious nonsense when I read Dostoyevsky, I try to put aside the communist stuff from Sri Sri's work. There is a poem called ninnaTi jaTkAvADu in marOprasthAnam. (The poem is the first one at that link.) He describes the travails of an ordinary jatkaa-vaadu in first person in a rustic, educated version of Telugu that most poets would struggle with. Try reading it when you have some time.
  Truthbetold3 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
he was moved by people's plight. When he wrote his early poems there was not much of a movement.  

His greatness was not to state the party line but to create the poetic painting of life in simple yet powerful words. His poetry captured the beauty of the language in simple words and conveyed the agony of the people in a powerful way.  It never made cry. His poetry was for action.  You should read Chalam's preface to his poetry. 

From a ANR movie:

kala Kanidi Viluvainadi ...

Agdhamau jalanidhilo animutya munnatule
sokhala maruguna padi sukhamunnadille
Edi tananta tanai ni dariki radu
sadhinchi sodhinchute dheera gunam

He was a non confirmist and a rebel. he was never able to fit into a party mode and moved away from each of the outfits that he was associated with.  He was also a man with many personal flaws. But they made him more of ahuman. 

he was also very sharp with words.

 
  carvaka posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Yeah, that's another reason I like him. He was the exact opposite of a party apparatchik. His loyalty was always with the poor people he gave voice and hope to. And he was honest about them as well. I am reminded of the song: "evaro vastaarani edo chestaarani eduru choosi mosapokuma, nijam telisi nidura pokuma"... and then he goes on to chide the "duraasa" of the poor that leads them to buy a lottery ticket with kooli-dabbu.
  muchocricket posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
speaking of poor people:

nailu nadi nagarikatalo  samanyuni jeevitamettidi?
taj mahal nirmananiki  rallettina coolielevvaru?
samrajyapu danadayatralo  samanyuni sahasamettidi?
prabhuvekkina pallaki kadoy  adi mosina boyavallevvaru?
  carvaka posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Yeah, this was a gem that I really struggled to translate. I promised my wife I would translate this whole poem, but I am nowhere near done. I was hoping to use CH as the testing ground for my translation, so any feedback is welcome :).
  Truthbetold3 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Post your translation on a regular basis . We will rip them. 
  carvaka posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Will do... thanks! Today's pieces:

E yuddham enduku jarigeno
E rAjyam ennALLundO
tEdIlU dastAvEjulu
ivi kAvOy charitra sAram

What were the causes of which war?
How long did which empire last?
These dates and those documents
Aren't the true essence of history past!

nailu nadi nagarikatalo  samanyuni jeevitamettidi?
taj mahal nirmananiki  rallettina coolielevvaru?
samrajyapu danadayatralo  samanyuni sahasamettidi?
prabhuvekkina pallaki kadoy  adi mosina boyavallevvaru?


In the civilization by the Nile
How was the common man's life?
To build the grand Taj Mahal,
Who are the coolies that lifted stones?

Amidst the blitzkreigs of empires
What courage did ordinary people show?
It's not the palanquin of the lord;
Who are the bearers carrying the load?
  Truthbetold3 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Let me chew on this.  Translation is OK. 
  Truthbetold3 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago

I read the translation after one full day.  It looks good. 

"These dates and those documents"

may be "Those dates and these douments"   (dates were gone and far away and available documents are here)

"Who are the coolies that lifted stones?" 

This came out real nice.

I will continue to look for any scope for improvement. But they look good as they are.

 

 

  carvaka posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
Thanks a lot for the feedback, TBT! I will post the side-by-side of the remaining verses later. I am glad that I am getting more out of CH than just arguments and fights :).









  Propagandhi122 posted Re:tEdIlU dastAvEjulu ivi kavoy charitra sAram [telugu] on 1 month ago
I have telugu lipi on my home comp. will bookmark that link. thanks.





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